User talk:Mustafaa/Archive 1

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Translation doubts[edit]

I read in the article Arabic language: "however, a much more significant factor for most dialects is, as among Romance languages, retention (or change of meaning) of different classical forms. Thus Iraqi aku, Levantine fiih, and North African kayen all mean "there is", and all come from Arabic (yakuun, fiihi, kaa'in respectively), but now sound very different." I have some doubts about the meaning of this: 1. What do you mean about "retention" = change of meaning - is that true? 2. If retention is the change of meaning of a classical form, what were the original meaning of three words in the example? If it is the same ("there is") where are the change of meaning?

Excuse me if my english is not very good... Can you help me? Manuel Anastácio 16:15, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)


Please take a look at the discussion and give your views. I note you have been a contributor. Many thanks. John Ball

Thanks for your input on the discussion. I welcome your comments on the article as it currently stands. John Ball 29/07/04. 15:40.

Hello Mustafaa, welcome to Wikipedia! I hope you like the place and decide to join the community. Drop us a note at Wikipedia:New user log so we can meet you and help you get started. If you need editing help, visit Wikipedia:How to edit a page. For format questions, visit our manual of style. If you have any other questions about the project then check out Wikipedia:Help or add a question to the Newcomers' Village pump. And of course, feel free to talk with me or ask questions on my talk page. Enjoy! --Alex S 23:44, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I am temporarilly adding back most of the deleted material on the Temple Mount article. However, I want to explain why. First off, consider the traditional Jewish and Christian views of the Israelite exodus from Egypt, and the origin of the Torah (five books of Moses). Now look at our articles on these subjects; these contain critical historical discussions of what many historians believe about these issues. From the viewpoint of most religious Jews or Christians, these may be seen as anti-Jewish or anti-Christian polemics. But in the context of our post-enlightenment society, these should be more correctly viewed as dispassionate historical analysis. Obviously, we should take care to distinguish traditional religious views from more historical studies. Yet we also need to recognize that some of our "modern" historical views have a basis in traditional religious views! For instance, some early traditional rabbinic Jews have surprisingly modern views of the origin of the Torah, and some traditional Muslims had varying interpretations of the Quranic verse on the night voyage to the farthest place. RK 02:04, Apr 9, 2004 (UTC)

"Temporarily" is fine. I do agree that this sort of argument is not without merit, which is why I invited you to put it in a separate article rather than merely deleting it as irrelevant. However, I do not agree that this represents the scholarly consensus on the matter, nor that Western scholars are the only (or indeed the most relevant) body in which such a "consensus" might be formed. On even a superficial reading I can see several flaws in the argument as it stands; once you move it to a separate article, I would be happy to address them. Mustafaa 05:03, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

An article which could use your attention is Bible conspiracy theories --Zero 10:56, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, Zero! I really am shocked at the amount of falsehood and propaganda that had been in that article. I knew RK was biased, but I had thought he was at least intellectually honest... - Mustafaa 21:12, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Nice work on Definitions of Palestine. Your re-organization improved it immensely, distinguishing Palestine and Palestinian. I'm hoping that this article can be a reference for several of the other articles relating to Palestinian nationalism in the context of the Arab-Israeli conflict. --your Jewish friend, Uncle Ed 12:54, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks! I hope it proves useful - certainly the word provides much fodder for controversy... - Mustafaa 17:57, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I also like what you've contributed to The Palestinians. I'm finally starting to get a feel for who they are, beyond all the politics and controversy stuff. :-) --Uncle Ed 13:24, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I added a section on their ancestry - have a look and tell me if it needs any work... Do you know any geneticists on Wikipedia? A more expert eye would be useful for that part. - Mustafaa 00:18, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Hello, just noticed this. I'm a geneticist (although a molecular geneticist rather than a population geneticist, and more concerned with fission yeast than humans). Maybe I can still help? - pir 18:19, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Hi Mustafaa, I just wanted to tell you how much I like your edits and how appreciative I am that you can keep your cool and respond so calmly and intelligently in such a contentious area as the Middle East. Please keep up the good work. Danny 01:50, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Thanks! I'd rather be working on the linguistics articles, but if the moderates don't edit, those pages just get left to the radicals... - Mustafaa 07:03, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Hello Mustafaa, I agree with Danny (as usual). Keep up the great work (please ;-). --Zero 11:32, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Ahalan Mustafaa. Thanks for the invitation. Some history you might want to know--shortly before you joined I was in the middle of a major battle over the Israel/Palestine issue with some, shall we say, conservative Wikipedians. It was very upsetting, being called an anti-Semite and all of that, and I decided to take a little break from that particular corner of Wikipedia while the hotheads beat each other up. I would like to help, and if there is anything specific I can do, please call on me, but I am a little reluctant to jump into a potential edit war at this point. If there is, however, anything specific I can do to help, please let me know. Danny 23:47, 26 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Hi Mustafaa. Wikipedia does not have adequate procedures for dealing for people like this anon. If it was purely a vandalism thing then blocking the IP would be routine, but this one is more of a fanatic than a vandal (despite the way it feels). In this case there are places to complain but in practice nothing will happen so it's a waste of time. Sometimes people like this go away after a few weeks, and sometimes they get mellow and cease being such a pain. Other times, alas, they hang around forever. You might try leaving a problem article for a while and coming back later. Sorry I can't bring better news. --Zero 13:28, 28 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Re Anti-Zionism: Has Gaddafi renounced the destruction of Israel? Do you have a source for this? Adam 07:29, 1 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

"Thursday, 15 May, 2003: Libyan leader Mu'ammar al-Qadhafi renewed his calls Wednesday for establishing an Israeli-Palestinian state under the name of "Israteen" to resolve the Middle East conflict. Qadhafi said the solution was plausible on condition of allowing the repatriation of Palestinian refugees from wherever they were. Qadhafi first made his proposal at the Arab summit held in Amman in 2001. It was since made part of his "White Book" published on his private internet Web site. His suggestion "guaranteed the settlement of the Middle East conflict as the new Israteen state would become member of the Arab League," Qadhafi said.[UPI]"[1] "Israteen", by the way, is a combination of "Israel" and "Filasteen". I suppose some would still interpret this as calling for the "destruction" of Israel, but clearly not for, as the article puts it, the "physical destruction" of it. - Mustafaa 08:14, 1 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]


User:Mustaafaa has been permanently blocked. RickK 01:14, 2 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Good! Thanks. Freaks like that have no place here. - Mustafaa 01:17, 2 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

RickK beat me to it. Almost certainly this was someone, probably someone who usually posts under another name, who created a look-alike username to try to discredit you. You can take it as a compliment that someone thought you were so dangerous ;-). --Zero 02:44, 2 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Ronia the Robber's Daughter[edit]

Thanks for rewriting the page. I don't have as much time as I wish I had for wikipedia, else I'd have edited it myself. I take it you've read the book and enjoyed it. Do you know anything about children's books in Arabic? I often get asked about children's literature in Arabic, and particularly about translations of The Wizard of Oz and Harry Potter as these are books I've translated myself into Hebrew. I'd love to get my hands on Arabic copies (I have a large collection of international editions of both books), so far, all I have is a teensy abridged copy of "The Wizard of Oz" from Istanbul. If you know of any other edition, I'd appreciate your sharing that information with me! --Woggly 07:01, 2 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I don't know much about Arabic kids' books (and wasn't impressed with the few I read as a kid), but I'll see what I can do. - Mustafaa 07:27, 2 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks again. I don't know anything about your background, I just latched onto your name and your interest in the Arabic language! My impression is that most of what is currently being written in Arabic for children tends to be primarily for education, perhaps even leaning towards propaganda, and there is not much out there just for pleasure. I suppose that's understandable, but I'd love to be proven wrong. It's the fun stuff that gets kids to love reading, and it's the fun stuff that makes cultural exchange appealing. Children's books authors make mighty cultural ambassadors.--Woggly 08:58, 2 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My limited impression is that Arabic kids' books are pretty Victorian, with a major emphasis on biographies of "great men". But I didn't read all that many, so what do I know? You could try asking someone like, say, User:Isam. - Mustafaa 22:20, 3 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Tanakh Data Set[edit]

Hello, Mustafaa! This is Gilgamesh. I'm glad we've had our talks about the Hebrew language as written in the Tanakh. I'd be happy to send you my Tanakh data set (as a serialized java.lang.String[][][] object), if you want. If you want me to send it to you, contact me at and we can arrange a file transfer. Just remove the "-NOSPAM-" substring from the email address. - Gilgamesh 22:24, 2 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hebrew Names article[edit]

Hello, Mustafaa. Since you seem to be very knowledgeable regarding Hebrew and Semitic languages in general, I'd like to invite you to help me refine the new Hebrew names article in whatever way you feel able. In particular, an expansion of the Hebrew names list at the bottom of the article page. It'll be fun! - Gilgamesh 22:52, 5 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Looks like a cool idea! I'll have a look. - Mustafaa 22:59, 5 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I appreciate all the input and edits you have made recently at Hebrew name. Your level-headed insight has been very constructive in communicating detail while maintaining a NPOV of the article. You have even rescued me from accidental POV a couple of times. - Gilgamesh 23:38, 6 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

No problem! Thank you in fact - your Hebrew name idea inspired me to get started on Maghreb toponymy... - Mustafaa 23:50, 6 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks, but the idea wasn't entirely mine. I recalled the Nahuatl dictionary article, and I saw no reason why we couldn't maintain a list of names. In fact, I have another idea...check back at List of Hebrew names later to see. - Gilgamesh 01:26, 7 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

You were curious about "Xerxes". That's the Greek form of "Xšayarša", and "Xerxes" is the name the Persian king is usually known by in European languages. (The name "Ahasuerus" was used in Bible translations probably because of the general obscurity of the subject, but the Greek records of Xerxes and the Jewish records of Ahasuerus match the same time period and circumstances.) Hellenistic civilization had an early monopoly on introduction of oriental words and names to Europe. (Arabic didn't replace this role until the Renaissance.)

True - but what I can't seem to find is what the name actually means! Probably something to do with khshayathiya "king", but I haven't found evidence yet. - Mustafaa 06:34, 7 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]
...Oh. Well it all sounds Persian to me. :Þ - Gilgamesh 06:50, 7 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Question: Mount Scopus[edit]

Recently I created a stub for Mount Scopus. I supplied the Hebrew name, but I don't know the Arabic name. Do you know it? :) - Gilgamesh 03:34, 8 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Took some work, but I found it - apparently it's got three names! (though the last looks like the most common.) - Mustafaa 03:55, 9 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hi, your comment: better mention that Shebaa is not in the Shebaa Farms, since this counterintuitive fact confused Humus sapiens earlier. I've no idea what you're talking about here. --Humus sapiens|Talk 05:37, 10 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

See edit history; the village of Shebaa is not part of the Shebaa Farms, and is Lebanese according to all parties involved. - Mustafaa 05:58, 10 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've got to admit, I didn't know the diff between the village and the farms. Sorry and thanks for clearing this out for me. --Humus sapiens|Talk 06:09, 10 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]
No problem. I have to admit I didn't realize it either until quite recently! - Mustafaa 06:46, 10 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Arabic spellings for names[edit]

Hey Mustafaa. I've recently been going around adding Hebrew spellings to a lot of articles. But I noticed that a lot of articles currently list the transliterations of Arabic names, but not the spellings. Do you, by chance, know the Arabic writing for "al-Khalil"? I'll get back to you if I encounter this again. :) - Gilgamesh 04:53, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I revised the Hebrew segments of more articles. Also missing Arabic writings: Jericho, Jaffa, Gaza. - Gilgamesh 05:09, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Cool. I've fixed those ones - keep me posted! - Mustafaa 05:18, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Nazareth. I bet most Americans don't know that it's a chiefly Arab Christian town under Israeli jurisdiction. :P - Gilgamesh 05:24, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Haifa and Akko. The Akko names look almost complete, but it's not entirely clear what the transliteration for the Arabic name is. - Gilgamesh 05:37, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Aqaba. - Gilgamesh 05:44, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Amman. I added the Hebrew and Greek names already. I'm running out of places to think of that have both Arabic and Hebrew linguistic relevance. - Gilgamesh 05:54, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

My edits at Haifa are being disputed. I tried to explain it, but I don't know if I missed any arguments or not. Maybe, if I missed anything or got anything wrong, you could add your $0.02 too? :) - Gilgamesh 07:30, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thank you, Mustafaa. ^_^ I hope your talk page doesn't grow uncomfortably big like a busy message board. One of these days, we'll need an external Internet-capable Wikipedia app for specialized article browsing/editing without the limitations of a web browser. - Gilgamesh 07:40, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Raanana. Timestamp? Why bother? You know it's me, and the exact time is recorded in Wikipedia's history anyway. :D

OK, that one you win :)! But it does overlap slightly with the Palestinian ex-village of Tabsur. - Mustafaa 07:57, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Holon. :)

Oh, here's one I edited but forgot to mention. A big one. Netanya.

That one I can do, sort of - it was founded on empty land, but it has since grown to cover three Palestinian ex-villages... - Mustafaa 08:11, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Wow, nothing before-and-after 1948 is remotely simple or trivial, is it? :P - Gilgamesh 08:18, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Can you believe it? There's no article for Qalqiliya! And I don't have the faintest clue how its spelled in Hebrew either. :P You would think that a fairly large-sized town recently completely enveloped by the fence would have at least a stub or something. (That's not a hint; I'm expecting nothing in particular. :P) Anyway, if anyone were able to at least put up a stub, I could probably have the Hebrew form by then. - Gilgamesh 08:32, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Okay, found it. :) "קלקיליה" has more Google hits and is more common in newspapers, etc. "קלקליה" has far fewer hits, but seems more prominent on websites. I guess I'd use whichever more closely reflects the Arabic spelling. I don't think Qalqiliya had/has Israeli settlers (right?), but it was a multiethnic center for agricultural commerce before the concrete walls.

Yeah, the Arabic is قلقيلية Qalqîlyah. That would be a good article - I'll have to think about it. I need to get a Palestinian Wiki-addicted one of these days... :) - Mustafaa 08:53, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Remember, NPOV. :) POV is far too easy on both sides when it comes to the Green Line and Palestinian issues. Just pretend you're an alien from outer space traveling to earth for the first time in 2004, and browsing the fascinating lands and mountainous regions on the southeast coast of the Mediterranean Sea. :) For fun, pretend to have difficulty pronouncing "Yis...ra...el?" and "Fi...las...tin?" :D - Gilgamesh 09:04, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes, this is all too true! Feel free to un-POV me if you think I've gone too far... However, seeing a half-truth like "Ashdod was founded in 1956" with no mention of the Palestinian village of that name, really annoys me. - Mustafaa 09:11, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

But the reason I need to addict a Palestinian to Wikipedia is precisely that - so he can do the whole defending controversial articles (like Palestinian, for one) and adding Palestinian villages while I relax and work on linguistics and history!

Ashdod was one of the five Canannite cities along with Gat Ashkelon and others

Actually, it was one of the five Philistine cities. - Mustafaa 18:43, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Zion. I also expanded the article significantly. BTW, that other comment wasn't me; I never misspell "Canaanite". :) - Gilgamesh 23:19, 12 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Leviathan, Behemoth, Bahamut.

Marriage in Islam[edit]

Mustafaa, where ought the following factoid go?

The Koran, which calls the husband the head of the family, does not allow a Muslim woman to marry a non-Muslim man. However, Muslim men are allowed to marry Jewish or Christian women with the proviso their children are brought up as Muslims. [2]

Do we have an article on Marriage in Islam or Muslim marriage? --Uncle Ed 12:29, 18 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

We have a blank for it; until it's written, though, I guess it belongs somewhere in Sharia. - Mustafaa 18:09, 18 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

It's now in there, in corrected form. - Mustafaa 21:31, 18 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Refute, elucidate, etc.[edit]

"refute" means "disprove", and not, despite popular usage, "reject"

Actually, refute can mean either "disprove" or "deny", see [3] or [4]. --Gabbe 20:11, May 18, 2004 (UTC)

Touché! Thanks. However, with an ambiguity like that in its meaning, I still say the term is dangerously POV. - Mustafaa 20:20, 18 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Couldn't agree more... --Gabbe 03:16, May 20, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for NPOVing my text, Mustafaa. Frankly, I like your ver. more than "elucidate" that I came up with. BTW, that book was relevant IMO: see it quoted in Zionology#Zionology sources. I'll try to find smth. more obvious. --Humus sapiens|Talk 20:46, 18 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

I can see your point about the book, but something whose title reflects anti-Zionism would be more directly relevant. Explaining why this particular book is anti-Zionist would require an excessively long digression. - Mustafaa 20:54, 18 May 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Mustafaa man![edit]

Yo, where's Mustafaa? Bring him in da house! We must make beautiful NPOV Semitic articles together! Let's have IM jamz! *does a corny dance* - Gilgamesh 11:19, 8 June 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Hi Mustafaa. In Palestinian Arabic there is a sentence "In addition, a feminine in -a rather than..." that doesn't parse for me. Can you clarify it please? --Zero 11:07, 9 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Check out my Taif Agreement addition[edit]

Check out my Taif Agreement addition, since you seem irked by my contributions to History of Lebanon, etc' (BTW, I take that as a compliment. I'm happily an anti-anti-zionist.)

And I was fascinated by your Bat Ye'or contributions. Why so angry? Doug

The Taif Agreement article is fine... but I am surprised; you wrote a whole article about an agreement without claiming once that it somehow magically implied Hizbullah had to be disbanded? Well done! - Mustafaa 04:47, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Actually, you can figure that one out for yourself. I'm not surprised that you choose not to understand the context of words like 'All' with reference to militias. Oh well, as long as you think Hezbollah is a good thing for regional stability I guess you can read whatever you want into Taif. 31, Aug 2004.

Palestinian invaders[edit]

I've answered a linguistic query of yours over on Gilgamesh's page. In a nutshell, yes, פלש means "invaded", but I've expanded on that a bit. Check it out. --Woggly 08:29, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Thank you! - Mustafaa 19:35, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Meaning of GPN[edit]

גפן = grapevine ^_^ - Gilgamesh 03:01, 24 June 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Hi, I realize such articles aren't your priority but could you cast a quick glimse at Al-Arabiyya to see if anything catches your eye? Thanks. -- Viajero 15:07, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Sure. - Mustafaa 07:00, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)


Thanks for the cognates! Sorry I don't know any Cushitic or Omotic, except that the defunct bookstore used to carry a Somali phrasebook. Except for petach/ptah, which I happened to notice in a book about Egyptian, the ones I added are from the Chadic article. -phma 23:34, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

More Arabic names for articles?[edit]

If you don't think an article is entirely relevant to Arab history, you can leave out the Arabic name. :) al-Andalus. Toledo. Granada. Cordoba, Spain. Cadiz. Sevilla. The Alhambra. Gibraltar (looks incomplete). Guadalquivir. Ceuta (incomplete). Melilla (only has Berber) Lisbon. Oporto. Galicia (Spain). Zaragoza. El Cid. Tangier (incomplete). Annaba. Carthage. Tunis. Tripoli (incomplete). Benghazi. Malta. Sicily. Syracuse. Catania. Messina. Palermo. Marsala. Calabria. - Gilgamesh 11:22, 29 June 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Unfortunate phrase[edit]

Hi, Mustafaa. About 2/3 of Palestinian Arabs fled, or were expelled or killed by Israeli forces, -- this could be misunderstood as a large part of 2/3 were killed. I'd prefer _you_ fix it. Thanks Humus sapiensTalk 23:54, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Loolwa Khazzoom[edit]

Hey Mustafaa. Remember Loolwa Khazzoom? I've collected some more articles written by her. They address issues ranging from Arab-Jewish relations to the Mideast Conflict to the status of both Arabs and Jews in both Arab countries and Israel. It also casts into light a prevailing racism in both Israel and the Arab world, and also perhaps some hope in fixing it. Some articles might interest you more than others, but I hope you browse them all. :)

Also her book, Flying Camel: Essays on Identity by Women of North African and Middle Eastern Jewish Heritage (Live Girls Series).

She has also written criticisms of domestic Israeli society in general, as well as funny stories about meeting men in public.

- Gilgamesh 01:02, 29 June 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Yes, this should probably be at Berber languages. RickK 06:42, Jul 1, 2004 (UTC)

Re: Canaanite and Hebrew[edit]

Hi, see my response at User talk:IZAK. Thanks. IZAK 05:29, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Request for assistance in a conflict between users regarding Canaanite and Hebrew linguistics articles[edit]

I've moved the request/discussion from Wikipedia:Requests for mediation to Talk:Hebrew language and the issue has been listed at Wikipedia:Requests for comment, because according to Wikipedia:Dispute resolution, this should be done before mediation is attempted, and I do think that involving more people in the discussion will help move the issue forward.

Thanks, BCorr|Брайен, Co-chair of the Mediation Committee 12:54, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Shabtai Zvi[edit]

Thanks for the redirect! I knew it had to be here, somewhere. --Woggly 08:29, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

article that could use your input[edit]

In case it's not on your watchlist: Islamic fundamentalism. --Zero 13:12, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Invitation for Hebrew linguistics project participation[edit]

Wikipedia:WikiProject Judaism is trying to decide all Hebrew linguistics issues for Wikipedia by themselves. But Hebrew is not purely the realm of Judaism; it is also the realm of Samaritans, Christians and Abrahamic religion as a whole, and also secular Canaanite languages studies. I'm trying to challenge mono-cultural mono-sectarian dominance over a linguistic field that we all should be sharing together. I invite you to participate in trying to pluralize Hebrew language conventions for Wikipedia. In particular, not only is Tiberian Hebrew transliteration challenged, but also Standard Hebrew transliteration, as some people want to use only Israeli Hebrew colloquial transliteration or Ashkenazi Hebrew liturgical transliteration. I think these are perfectly valid and worthy of participation, but not at the total expense of every other Hebrew linguistics study concern. Please support a multi-religious multi-cultural scientific NPOV mandate for studying Hebrew linguistics on Wikipedia. - Gilgamesh 02:46, 18 July 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]


Sorry about that Mustafaa, I didn't see your message (I keep forgetting to log on!)...what exactly has been going on on Arab?--Jad 07:51, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)


Hi Mustafaa. I would like to nominate you for adminship. Would you accept? Danny 16:20, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Great idea. I'll certainly support such a nomination. --Zero 01:07, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thank you! I'm honored. But I should check first - what responsibilities does it entail? - Mustafaa 08:40, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

For a full answer to that question, read Wikipedia: Administrators. Also, here is a list of questions commonly put to nominees on Wikipedia:Requests for adminship, you might like to think through your answers in advance:
  1. Have you read the section on Administrators?
  2. Are you interested in, and do you think you'll have some time to perform, the chores that only sysops have access to do, to help keep Wikipedia up to date?
  3. If you become a sysop, which sysop chore or chores (WP:VFD, recent changes, watching for vandals and vandalism, responding to editor requests for assistance, any other) do you especially think you would be able to help with.
  4. In your opinion, what article have you contributed the most succesfully and helpfully to?
  5. In your opinion, what has your best contribution to the running and maintenance of Wikipedia been? (i.e., have you reverted a bad stretch of vandalism, done extensive work categorizing articles, helped mediate a dispute?)
  6. Of your Wikipedia edits and experiences thus far, what is your biggest regret? What do you wish you'd done differently?
If, after reading through this, you still accept the nomination, I will also support it. --Woggly 07:28, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

After thinking about it, I'm sorry to say I've decided I can't accept at the moment; it would get me deeper into Wikipedia than I can afford to be right now, given my commitments elsewhere. But thanks for the support! I might try and take you up on that again when I'm a little less busy in the real world... :) - Mustafaa 00:35, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Mustafaa apparently extended absence[edit]

I haven't seen Mustafaa say anything or make any edits in a long time now. Could it be possible he's on a vacation or extended trip or something? - Gilgamesh 04:59, 21 July 2004 (UTC)Reply[reply]

He was; he has been known to disappear without warning... ;) - Mustafaa 08:32, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Suddenly, not just Mustafaa but every other Wikipedia user I know on instant messaging networks has been offline, or at least not online at the same time I am. :p - Gilgamesh 06:58, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Have an

 ice cream sandwich 

^_^ - Gilgamesh 07:36, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

You are hereby invited to Wikipedia:WikiProject Hebrew languages. - Gilgamesh 08:16, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

African languages[edit]

(moved back to my talk page)

Abu Shusha[edit]

Hello, please look at to see if there is anything of significance that should be added to Abu Shusha. Thanks, Zero 07:40, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Palestinian/Israeli Population genetics[edit]

Hi Mustafaa, I had a closer look at Palestinian#The ancestry of the Palestinians, and I think what you wrote was very good. I added some information about the scientific tools to look at this question, to enable people to make up their own mind as far as this is possible. I also added some detail on what the studies actually found. In my opinion the results so far are complex, much research still needs to be carried out, and there is the risk of drawing too broad conclusions, so I added this kind of caveat. I hope the resulting paragraph does not contain too much detail (although detail is absolutely essential when it comes to science) - I think this topic deserves its own article and I might actually write one when I get around to it. Personally I somewhat dislike the attempt to use genetic findings for political purposes, especially given the record of "race science", - the settlement of conflicts needs to be based on universal human rights, and the right to national self-determination. On the other hand, population genetics deflate the blatant racism surrounding the Pal-Is conflict (just as all racism and racist nationalism lacks a scientific basis, let a lone a moral one), and it's also very human to be interested in one's ancestry. Maybe genetics can help Palestinians and Israeli Jews to come to see each other as brother people, a consciousness that would be conducive to "a state in which Jews and Palestinians live together as equals" (my preferred solution to the conflict). Have you ever tried to add the genetics findings to Jew or a similar article? I guess the resident Zionists could never tolerate that... I try to avoid edit conflicts with them, as I don't usually have the time and energy to take on dogmatic/fanatic editors impervious to reasoning. Anyway, don't hesitate to contact me if I can be of assistance. - pir 13:30, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I've heard of genetics studies like that. :) I don't doubt them a bit. Unfortunately, it's like telling Japanese they have genetic similarity with Central Asians, or telling Maltese that they're genetically descended from Arabs and Berbers of North Africa. It's politically extremely unpopular. If I recall, when so many Mizrahi Jews and Sephardi Jews fled Arab countries and went to Israel as refugees, the Ashkenazi population widely regarded them as "dirty", and they were all systematically sprayed with DDT to make them "clean", but for decades were often regarded as inferior and backwards, usually working in servile menial labor. Their unique customs and culture were also regarded as backwards, compared to "modern" "civilized" (euphemism for "Ashkenazi") Jewish customs, and they were even expected to abandon and discard their unique Judeo-Arabic language and forms of the Hebrew language to become more "educated". Now Mizrahi Jews make the slight population majority in Israel, and conditions for them are considerably better than they were in the 1960s (though still not perfect), but my point is that even genetics sometimes cannot shake a social stigma regarding culture. But understand firmly that I am not entirely pessimistic — there is always room for cultural bridges, if you work hard enough at them. I recommend reading the essays of Loolwa Khazzoom, an Iraqi Jewish woman who talks about past grievous discriminations against her and her ways, and efforts to bring peace and multicultural understanding to all sides. It seems that the Mideast Conflict has not only been Jewish vs. Arab interest, but also Jewish vs. Jewish interests, including the right to cultural distinction. In this struggle, I see Shas as an unfortunate radicalization to come out of this suffering, just as the Intifadahs were a radicalization from the suffering of Arab youth. The Holy Land belongs to all of Abraham/Ibrahim's children of all religious denominations, and they should share it in peace and harmony. - Gilgamesh 21:16, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Language Categories[edit]

I see you are busy categorizing! I'm a fan of categorization, it makes the information a lot mory versatile and accessible. I'm not very much into Wiki categories yet - don't know how they can be nested and what nesting looks like on the upper level. So maybe you can answer my questions.

As for languages and language families, there are many ways to organise them. I imagine that it would be very nice to be able to generate lists of all languages in a certain phylum (say, Niger-Congo). A separate thing (equally nice) would be the possibility to generate/look up a list of the language families (say, Gur, Kru, Kwa, etc.) a macrofamily contains; and so on down to the individual languages.

I don't yet understand how to work with categories and keep this two things (all individual items versus possible subcategorizations) separate. What I have seen so far is that there is no way to individuate subcategories from individuals in a category listing; they are listed as having just the same status. What are your ideas/purposes as to categories, languages, and language families? - Strangeloop (talk) 22:55, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Sorry if my edits were a bit abrupt, by the way! My idea is to basically replicate the linguistic family tree in category form; thus Gbe languages becomes a subcategory of Kwa languages, itself a subcategory of Niger-Congo languages. This has the advantage that low-level categories are more solidly based in many cases than high-level ones, and if classification changes, the category can be changed relatively easily; but, on the other hand, it makes it harder to see a global listing of Niger-Congo languages. What are your thoughts? - Mustafaa 23:31, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
First, you don't have to apologize. I think replicating the linguistic family tree is one of the best ways to use categories for languages so I'm with you. My only question is related to what you say here: "it makes it harder to see a global listing of Niger-Congo languages". Why is it harder? Are you saying that there isn't a way to separate subcategories from individual languages on a Category page? (Maybe I should search for similar discussions - surely other Wikipedians have come across this sort of problems long before.) And if I can't get all I ask from Categories, replicating the linguistic family tree is the best thing to do anyway.
One more thing. This is quite a large project. To do things properly, maybe we should consider making it part of WikiProject Languages or WikiProject Language families, to make sure things will be done consistently and to discuss it with some of the participants of those WikiProjects. - Strangeloop (talk) 18:11, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Follow up. I've been experimenting with Categories for a while and learned some things. First, my fear was unnecessary: there is a difference between subcategories and real 'bottom'-items. It all depends on categorizing the right way. Which brings me to my second point: I don't think it is right to make, e.g., Gbe languages part of Category:Gbe languages. Gbe languages simply isn't a Gbe language. Instead, I think it would be better to add a link on the Category:Gbe languages page to the main article on Gbe languages. The only problem I didn't solve yet is the opposite case: how to add a link to Category:Gbe languages on the Gbe languages page without categorizing Gbe languages as a Gbe language. Adding [[Category:Gbe languages]] or even using an external link automatically wikifies the link so that is interpreted as a categorization instead of just a link to a page. What do you think? - Strangeloop (talk) 22:12, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Multi-lingual source texts[edit]

Hi Mustafaa.

We've been in contact about Hebrew language stuff (still have to get back to that template, sorry). I admire your expertise with language and history, and usually enjoy your contributions. (On political issues I often disagree with you and dislike your bias, but in those things I usually try not to get involved anyways.)

In terms of language and history: It seems to me that a contributor like you might (as I do) see a great deal of potential in the idea of supplementing the multilingual Wikipedia with a multilingual project for source-texts, which might often be linked. Wikisource exists, and it might really benefit from contributions from someone like you. I am trying to get people interested, and get a serious discussion going there both on a specific proposal for multilingualism (see this for ideas both on multilingialism and on ideas on where that project can go in general). Would especially love to see classical Arabic texts there (there is currently no Arabic version). Looking forward to your interest and comments! Dovi 03:50, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC)

Middle East Media Research Institute[edit]

Talk:Middle East Media Research Institute is debating some things I think you created...................... --Zero 15:42, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Here's a ripe one[edit]

You thought you'd seen some ripe stuff, but have a look at Islamozazism. The picture with the Nazi flag is a nice one. What do to about this? --Zero 04:07, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)


Hi Mustafaa, this is a personal request. I wanted to have my name "Nicholas" translated into the Arabic script. Since you listed five on your main page, it would be nice if you could translate it on my user page. Thanks. [[User:Nichalp|¶ ɳȉčḩåḽṗ | ]] 19:40, Sep 24, 2004 (UTC)

There may be a list of Arabic names somewhere. I hope there is, I'd like to know what mine is in Arabic.--Josiah 15:05, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

General reply[edit]

After a long absence, I'm back... - Mustafaa 13:38, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Glad to see it. Your discussion page needs archiving :P --Josiah 15:02, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Good to see you back. FYI, I've changed my name from Strangeloop to Mark Dingemanse (actually the change has not taken place yet, but I'm already working from my new account). - Mark Dingemanse (talk) 16:27, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Language list[edit]

Frankly, I give up with the list of Afro-Asiatic languages. You can do whatever you want with it. Delete, expand, redirect, whatever; I've taken too much flak over these language lists and it's stressful. That's not what Wikipedia is meant to do. So I am officially taking the list out of my hands and putting into yours. I don't mean to upset or confuse you, but I'll admit that you have some good ideas about what to do, and I'll go ahead and give you the chance to manage them. Good luck, --yan! | Talk 16:36, Oct 20, 2004 (UTC)

Tamasheq languages[edit]

I've posted a question at the Tamasheq languages talk page about the name of the article; I'm interested in your opinion. - Mark Dingemanse (talk) 15:22, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)


Mustafaa, can you please cast an eye over Arba'in to make sure that what I've written there is not nonsense? It's all written from secondary sources (principally fr: and de: Wikipedias, with some Googling for confirmation) at the moment. not from first-hand knowledge. -- The Anome 23:16, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Ard ul Quds vs. Al Quds[edit]

Hi Mustafaa, could you please see Talk:Holy Land and comment there? Thanks. Jayjg 22:25, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)


Hi Mustafaa,

I'm studying a translation of a commentary on the Biblical book of Nahum. It was originally written in Arabic (maybe Judeo-Arabic). The copy of it I have has an introduction (in english), and then it has the commentary in two languages. The first part is either a Hebrew translation of the Arabic, or a transliteration of the Arabic into Hebrew. If i posted a paragraph or two of the Hebrew text, could you tell me if it is a translation or a transliteration? (it doesn't have vowels in most of the words, which makes it impossible for me to figure it out at my current literacy)--Josiah 02:08, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Talk: Palestine disambig paragraph[edit]

Hi Mustafaa; please respond in the disambig paragraph section of the talk:Palestine page. Jayjg 15:31, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Jordan and Great Britain[edit]

Mustafaa, thank for reminding me that:

their goal was not to "settle the disputes over the disposition of the region", but rather to reward the Hashemites

One of the things I really like about working with you is that you don't lose patience with me when I forget things, and you trust me to try and get past my own bias. This makes it so much easier to cooperate on a balanced article series. Thank you! --Uncle Ed (El Dunce) 17:55, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

By the way, here is my public list of articles related to Palestine - watch - edit

Allah - tranlit vs translate[edit]

Mustafaa, would you mind voicing your opinion of my proposal that is at Talk:Similarities_between_the_Bible_and_the_Qur'an#Allah ? I think that instead of transliterating the word "Allah", that it should be translated, just like the Hebrew words "El" and "Elohiym" are generally translated in articles, not transliterated.--Josiah 22:11, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

great work on the suras, so far! I cannot contribute, but I'm learning a lot from this series. dab 14:22, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)


I really enjoy all your work on language and linguistics-related articles!

It would be really neat to see for example Ryukyuan languages or Yonaguni language in Arabic... The French Wikipedia has loads of articles on languages and linguistics, some which we don't have at en:... it'd be nice if the Arabic Wikipedia had more language and linguistics articles too

--Node 01:51, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks! I'm working on it - Akkadian language, at least, is currently better in Arabic than English... - Mustafaa 02:03, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Solar letters[edit]

Mustafaa hi. What is Wikipedia standard on transliterating from Arabic with respect to solar letters? Should "Al-Nakba" be replaced with (the much less used) "An-Nakba"? Thanks. Gadykozma 14:08, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Maybe we should bring this question to the public? Is there a Wikiproject page for Arabic? Gadykozma 14:19, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I don't know anything about standard systems for transliteration - I only make it as I go along... Gadykozma 00:40, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Aikhenvald & Militarev 1991?[edit]

Hi Mustafaa, Berber languages refers to the classification of 'Aikhenvald & Militarev 1991'. I was adding a references-section so I figured I might that one as well. However, I couldn't find the full title anywhere. Do you have the full citation? - Mark Dingemanse (talk) 17:44, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Organization of "Algonquin" articles[edit]

I've done an edit to Algonquin (disambiguation) that tries to list the articles using the term or any variant and to note the relationship among them. A review by more knowledgeable users would be a good idea. JamesMLane 13:39, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Apparently you are trying to glorify the state of Israel[edit]

According to Blankfaze you are a "POV warrior going around making mass deletions simply to glorify the state of Israel."[5] I thought you'd enjoy the chuckle. :-) Jayjg 22:02, 4 Nov 2004 (UTC)

So the lesson for the Zionists is to spit on Muslims so they won't get killed in anger. --Alberuni 19:23, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

And yet again, we see another prime example of Alberuni's intelligence.--Josiah 20:10, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Choice of words[edit]

(cur) (last) 14:10, Nov 8, 2004 Mustafaa (Quotes on Arab culture - "Observations" sounds a little too much like endorsement to me...)

Yes, good catch. The word quotes has no connotations whatsoever and is therefore better. Thanks. --user:Ed Poor (deep or sour) 19:15, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)
Thanks. To be honest, it probably just indicates that I'm spending too much time looking at Wikipedia articles... - Mustafaa 19:25, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I didn't mean to delete your link![edit]

Dear Mustafaa,

The deletion of the link to the sura in the Muhammad article was just me being careless. You and I were working on it at the same time, so I had to copy all my work to an edit window in OpenOffice and then interpolate your changes by hand. I just forgot this one. Sorry!

I also put some more work into the Muhammad's marriages article. It has links now, at least, though they might not be the best ones. I think you have the right idea in turning it from just and pro-and-con article into a broader examination of life in Muhammad's household. I'm quite tired right now and don't have the energy for it, but you could do some good work there.

It is a pleasure working with you. You are sincerely trying to cooperate and be NPOV, and I appreciate it, the more so as you are putting your own beliefs up for dispassionate examination. Perhaps we should trade places and work on the Buddha article together <g> Zora 00:37, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

"Islamic" Terrorism, Oxymoron, and Linguistics[edit]

Mustafaa, your input would be appreciated here [6] (it's a wikipedia discussion link, but i have problems doing it the normal way). Some are arguing that "Islamic Terrorism" is an oxymoron linguistically, pointing to the (root?) word of Sa'alam. I don't agree with that argument, but you understand arabic much better than I do.--Josiah 03:04, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)